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This page is provided for the convenience of readers responding to the budget survey. Background information will be provided (and updated), to give readers as much information as possible in preparation for the decisions which must be made. The forum is available to ask questions, report problems, and to share experiences.
It is not necessary to be registered on the website, or to be logged in, in order to participate. We ask that you use your real name when you post, so we know who's contributing. The forum is moderated. New posts are reviewed before they are made visible. Nothing is off limits EXCEPT personal attacks, or statements which could be deemed libelous. It's ok to say, "I hate overrrides!". It's not ok to say, "Board member X is a communist!".
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Jim Higgins (guest)
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| 04/18/2008 2:57 PM |
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| I am wondering how much effort has gone into loooking at shared services with abutting towns. I have to believe that we could save considerably by collaborating on such things as police, public works, etc. |
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skshrews (guest)
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| 04/18/2008 7:25 PM |
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This is an obvious answer to many issues in not just Harvard, but the whole state of Massachusetts.
I lived for awhile in Maryland, where there are county and not town governments. If nothing else, transportation, zoning, and school issues seemed to be easier to deal with over an entire county,rather than in many fragmented towns.
Mind you, Maryland is at least as over-taxed as Massachusetts, and I doubt the average taxpayer would ever see any savings if this system was instituted in Massachusetts. |
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Black Sheep (guest)
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| 04/19/2008 4:41 PM |
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| What are you suggesting we do? Be absorbed back into Lancaster? |
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Guest (guest)
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| 04/20/2008 11:46 AM |
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It is time for a reality check. According to the Boston Globe, the average 2005 income, according to W-2's filed, was $169K/year. Demographically, we look a lot like Lincoln, Concord/Carlisle, etc. No cheap tax bills in any of those towns either.
We have great schools, open space, a beautiful new library, Bare Hill Pond, etc. Harvard is a place that anyone would be happy to call home. And it comes at a price. For those on a fixed income taxes are a real issue. My parents moved from Sudbury ten years ago when their property tax bill hit $10K. This will be the average tax bill in Harvard three years from now. Without a significant increase in state aid (unlikely), or additional commercial tax revenue (ditto), we are forced to decide on endless overrides or decreased services/schools. Take away the high MCAS scores, and watch the impact to the value of your homes. Bottom line, you get what you pay for. |
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roymoffa
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| 04/21/2008 5:51 AM |
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| I have the FY07 annual town report and the FY08 warrant and omnibus budget for Oak Bluffs. Surprising, Oak Bluffs (on Martha's Vineyard) is not so dissimilar from Harvard in population, demographics, and has far less average income/family. Their budget is $21M of which only $8M is for schools due to regionalization. The remainder of the $13M is to deliver other services to the residents. What will Harvard do when it decides it needs a new school? Is it time to stop this K-12 self contained school philosophy and think about another model? Harvard cannot afford a property tax financed K-12 school system. Conord/Calisle and Acton/Boxboro have not seemed to have suffered. |
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LWMoulton (guest)
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| 04/21/2008 6:47 AM |
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I find these comments about average incomes to be misleading. With a household income less than half of what is "average" and a tax bill of $12K a year, almost twice the "average" tax bill in Harvard, the economics just don't work out for us. This bill on a house built with no mortgage by my husband and me (our own labor and than of people we hired directly).
We did not arrive here to demand fancy library, and elitist schools and we have almost zero impact on town services. We didn't ask for anything from the town and we certainly aren't getting anything we paid for, over $200,000 in 23 years to support other people's children. This would have been our retirement investment but alas, there will be no retirement. |
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Pond Guy (guest)
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| 04/21/2008 3:35 PM |
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The assumption made by many residents, including the person above known as "Guest," that Harvard's MCAS scores (and, therefore, the quality of its schools) will be greatly affected by relatively modest cuts in the school budget isn't borne out by any research. You don't always get what you pay for. In a town like Harvard, where the schools are superior (a national magazine recently called our schools among a handful of the best in all of New England), any additional funding or cuts will have a very small effect on quality. At some point, school funding, like funding for most things in life, reaches a level of diminishing returns. Harvard's schools -- unlike those in less well-to-do towns -- reached that level long ago. If we lose a few hundred thousand in school funding (or, for that matter, add a few hundred thousand), the effect will be small. It would be different if we lost 20 percent of the budget, but that isn't what we are struggling with right now.
Start with superior schools, add kids who have great genes (smart people live in Harvard), and further add parents who teach their kids outside the classroom, and you have a situation that can withstand a little trimming. Our kids will STILL turn out to be very productive, very happy human beings -- and, by the way, they will STILL go to great colleges (which, really, is what all the concern over schools is all about).
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Farm Guy (guest)
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| 04/26/2008 8:26 AM |
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| I question how Pond Guy knows what the impact will be to the schools if no level of override is passed. I expect that we will be offered a no override scenario, which is sure to include teacher layoffs. You can bet there are good teachers sending resumes out right now. I have heard the arguement, self serving, that it is not the schools and teachers, but the SMART parents, who make the difference. With all do respect, I think the teachers deserve a little credit for the excellent performance of our children. |
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Guest (guest)
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| 05/02/2008 9:10 AM |
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| We will always have an override unless we build a strong commercial base to the town. The tax bills from residents just is not enough to fund expenses. If you pay $5000 in taxes but have three children to educate through the schools, we are already in the black. People here do not want the town to change by pushing businesses away but at the same time want to pay no extra money for this. Wake up people, can't have it both ways, commercialize Ayer Rd , change the tax rates for commercial zoning and start building. The town will not fall apart. Look at Lincoln,Concord,Sudbury,Wayland,Wellesley,Dover, the sky didn't fall on them when business came there. Or the final answer would be, if you can't afford to live here, then move out. |
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Black Sheep (guest)
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| 05/14/2008 9:21 AM |
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| While I agree with your thesis that the town needs to attract rather than to run off businesses, Guest, I think you would likely be run out of town on a rail by the Override Moms after being tarred and feathered. Those Override Moms are demanding more, more, more and they want it now, now, now. That MENTALity is a large part of what got Harvard into its current fiscal straits. I don't see the Override Moms stopping to think that a 2.50% override on top of the 2.50% the town is authorized to increase taxes each year results in a doubling of the property taxes every 14 years. Maybe we should let the school children stay home and try to teach some mathematics and economics to the Override Crowd. |
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